“What does it feel like to identify as an archetrope?”
2024-07-15 | tags: archetropy, alterhuman
this was a question asked by Daystar on the Archetroper's Guild discord server. what proceeded was a pretty productive conversation where a lot of different perspectives were shared, largely influenced by people having differing interpretations of what the question meant in the first place! here it is, pulled out of the discord so that it can publicly contribute to the community's understanding of what archetropy is like beyond its mere definition:
┌ Daystar & Fidelis& | Spero What does it feel like to identify as an archetrope?
wonderlight — 01/05/2024 16:48
I think the archetrope I feel the strongest is my& paladin archetrope and I could best explain it as,,the pull to serve something greater
Daystar & Fidelis& | Spero — 01/05/2024 16:49
Not really looking for that specifically! I mean like--what makes you identify as an archetrope specifically? Why? What is the lived experience of an archetroper?
The Magician — 01/05/2024 17:35
i think part of it for me is that i kind of turn my life into a narrative, if that makes sense? part of it is looking at my life on a meta level to see what archetypes and tropes and genres are Me if i view my life as a story i'm telling myself
uwubɸwɸs — 01/05/2024 18:46
trying my best to typecast myself. it's working but Not Well Enough
Dodec (🍵) — 01/05/2024 18:51
Everything is narrative on some level or another, whether explicitly written or just the meanings we find in it to make sense of everything, and it can be really validating to recognize the similarities between your own narrative and others. I came to the realization a while ago that when you lose the ability to mythologize yourself, that's where the really big problems start.
┌ The Magician i think part of it for me is that i kind of turn my life into a narrative, if that makes sense? part of it is looking at my life on a meta level to see what archetypes and tropes and genres are Me if i view my life as a story i'm telling myself
Lupine | Leafco 🍃 — 01/05/2024 19:26
This, basically. When I started getting into media analysis, I just... didn't stop applying it to fiction only. I took it a step further than just jokes or fun coincidences--once I started, I couldn't stop seeing the tropes and archetypes and connections everywhere in everything. Not literally, but it became a framework I leaned on for making sense of things with what I knew.
Nowadays, I'm far less dependent on that framework for general world stuff, but there are obviously still ways in which I apply it to myself, purposefully this time.
Gideon (it/they) — 01/05/2024 19:45
:MarioShrug: I just like having Words for Things. I have these sets of feelings and Words make it easier internally and externally to quantify and discuss and even do any fun things about it
and find other people
The Scavenger stuff doesn't feel particularly related to narratives for me, it's just that archetropy is the closest I've found so far? But the sitcom thing is definitely very much about tropes
(editor's note: gideon has told me since that it decided not to call its Scavenger Thing archetropy, but we agreed it was still useful to include its comments for posterity)
wonderlight — 01/05/2024 20:09
i mythologize myself and my world!
┌ Dodec (🍵) Everything is narrative on some level or another, whether explicitly written or just the meanings we find in it to make sense of everything, and it can be really validating to recognize the similarities between your own narrative and others. I came to the realization a while ago that when you lose the ability to mythologize yourself, that's where the really big problems start.
uwubɸwɸs — 01/05/2024 20:52
Yeah This
i am working on regaining the ability to mythologize myself it's going really poorly
mord (🧄🗡️) — 01/05/2024 21:02
i sat on this question for a couple hours and my thoughts splintered into like five half-essays but after going for a walk my tl;dr is
i think that for me being an archetroper is like rubbing a bit of iron with a magnet
you start out with a lump of potential hobbies and values and skills and passions and over and over, by choice ("how am i going to be a warlock today") or by chance ("huh that was pretty warlock-coded") you gently coerce all the bits into flowing in the same direction
so right now archetropy for me looks like yapping about glamourbombing, editing wikipedia, viewing relationships in extremely contractual and pragmatic ways, remebering to leave offerings for my gods at least sometimes
'warlock' is a sort of lodestar that i can use to derive more meaning from those things and make decisions about where i want to take myself
hopefully at least some of my shtick will look a little more stereotypically mythical in time, and gods willing i'll eventually be magentic enough to rub off on other people too ;v
Daystar & Fidelis& | Spero — 01/05/2024 21:15
This is all really interesting to read!
I have my own thoughts which I'm trying to herd together.
But I am still wondering what does it feel like to be an archetrope? For me, it goes beyond instinct or description into something elemental. Like the seed of it was there, always, but I'm nurturing it.
mord (🧄🗡️) — 01/05/2024 21:21
like, the qualia of archetropy? :v
Daystar & Fidelis& | Spero — 01/05/2024 21:21
Something like that??
I think it feels differently for everyone, which is exactly why I'm asking.
mord (🧄🗡️) — 01/05/2024 21:24
ah well i recuse myself from such a question as i am a philosophical zombie (how much of and in what ways this is a joke is left as an exercise to the reader)
Dodec (🍵) — 01/05/2024 21:31
flashbacks to sharing an apartment with a philosophy major one summer in uni /lh
Daystar & Fidelis& | Spero — 01/05/2024 21:32
Okay well how much would it surprise you to learn that i AM a philosophy major
Dodec (🍵) — 01/05/2024 21:33
That was mostly @mord, but I can only hope you're not a philosophy/math double major, which is what this guy was. It was. An Experience 😐
Daystar & Fidelis& | Spero — 01/05/2024 21:34
I have dyscalculia
┌ mord (🧄🗡️) i sat on this question for a couple hours and my thoughts splintered into like five half-essays but after going for a walk my tl;dr is
Daystar & Fidelis& | Spero — 01/05/2024 21:37
"Warlock is a sort of lodestar that I can use to derive more meaning from those things and make decisions about where I want to take myself"
I love this approach towards archetropy as a way of imbuing meaning into things which may not read as significant.
I wonder if a better question to pose, then, is just to ask what made people decide on this label specifically...
I hope I am not being annoying, by the way. I am trying to figure out some things right now and the discussion helps a lot.
anon user #1 — 01/05/2024 21:42
honestly, I personally just hang out in spaces where my experience of existence feels like it Venn diagrams with the experiences people in the space are talkin about. archetropy is just one of those things where I'm like, "yeah, I jive with this," but not in any way that can be pointed to as "this part of my existence is specifically archetropy-related". there is no intrinsic "archetropy" property in my Being or whatever
┌ Daystar & Fidelis& | Spero I hope I am not being annoying, by the way. I am trying to figure out some things right now and the discussion helps a lot.
Dodec (🍵) — 01/05/2024 21:43
I get you, yeah, it's hard to word things when part of the entire point of the thing is it applying to your identity such that there's not really any clearer way to communicate it.
(See also: gender)
Gideon (it/they) — 01/05/2024 21:44
I'm not even sure my Scavenger thing is archetropy, but like I said it's close. I do want to try to figure out if my canine-hearttype is archetropic too
Daystar & Fidelis& | Spero — 01/05/2024 21:47
That makes sense to me :]
I feel similarly in that archetropy, for me, is a community I want to engage in as opposed to a label for my specific experience ?
wonderlight — 01/05/2024 21:48
tbh my archetropy is an effect of my alterreality? like i already have changed my reality to belive i am saving the world; thus my arcetrope is "explorer-hero" (specific trope tbd but!)
┌ Daystar & Fidelis& | Spero I feel similarly in that archetropy, for me, is a community I want to engage in as opposed to a label for my specific experience ?
anon user #1 — 01/05/2024 21:51
that's.... way clearer than what I said. why can't I words 💀
this is why I don't essay :p
mord (🧄🗡️) — 01/05/2024 21:52
w i codified my archetypal identity/ies before the word archetrope existed so
┌ anon user #1 that's.... way clearer than what I said. why can't I words 💀
Daystar & Fidelis& | Spero — 01/05/2024 21:53
That's so real honestly.
mord (🧄🗡️) — 01/05/2024 21:54
(one could ask, then, what made you decide Being A Warlock is what you want to do about your feelings rather than another type of alterhuman identity or just getting a new job or hobby or whatever, why did you have to Mythologize it, and the answer is i am doing a big shrug)
fwiw i don't think you're being annoying, they're fruitful questions
┌ mord (🧄🗡️) (one could ask, then, what made you decide Being A Warlock is what you want to do about your feelings rather than another type of alterhuman identity or just getting a new job or hobby or whatever, why did you have to Mythologize it, and the answer is i am doing a big shrug)
Daystar & Fidelis& | Spero — 01/05/2024 21:55
┌ mord (🧄🗡️) fwiw i don't think you're being annoying, they're fruitful questions
Daystar & Fidelis& | Spero — 01/05/2024 21:55
:]
Gideon (it/they) — 01/05/2024 21:55
I've thought of myself as a Scavenger for a long time too, but more in either an animal sense or specifically a personality trait that makes more sense in a daemon analysis context :SlowThinker:
anon user #2 — 01/05/2024 22:07
I'm extremely new to archetropy so I'm not sure really how I feel it, but I know that I confirmed my druid type because I really felt like I wanted to be one, and I also feel like I'm described by them. I aim to be one although I'm not really sure how yet. I was thinking about doing witchcraft stuff but all the resources for that are wiccan and I'm not wiccan specifically, but I also don't believe in the Otherworld that's so important to neodruids, so it's just... a huge mess lol
Sorry if that wasn't really related
┌ anon user #2 I'm extremely new to archetropy so I'm not sure really how I feel it, but I know that I confirmed my druid type because I really felt like I wanted to be one, and I also feel like I'm described by them. I aim to be one although I'm not really sure how yet. I was thinking about doing witchcraft stuff but all the resources for that are wiccan and I'm not wiccan specifically, but I also don't believe in the Otherworld that's so important to neodruids, so it's just... a huge mess lol
Daystar & Fidelis& | Spero — 01/05/2024 22:13
I appreciate your perspective!
Ryuu | 星の夢化竜 — 02/05/2024 07:20wei are similar as well. We'd have these feelings towards Mew, but nothing really fit because Mew isn't something core or something we'd say hold close to heart. But the whole "how this character is, how they interact with the world around them, how others perceive them", how there's this Mew shaped hole, and wei just insert ourselves in. "if I fit, I sit" sort of thing
and then wei got introduced to archetrope, it took a while, but then it just made sense!
┌ Daystar & Fidelis& | Spero But I am still wondering what does it feel like to be an archetrope? For me, it goes beyond instinct or description into something elemental. Like the seed of it was there, always, but I'm nurturing it.
Mel/Stardust |🏡☄| Winrey Place — 02/05/2024 10:11
For most of my archetropes, it feels like having a bundle of kintypes that don't line up with the experiences or subtypes common in that community (i.e., my types aren't characters or species, and conceptkin doesn't feel like the right fit). This was a very frustrating and disheartening experience for a while and actually contributed to me stepping away from the alterhuman community for a few years because I was stressing myself out trying to fit my experiences into models that didn't work for me.
For my nonhuman archetropes, it feels like being certain species (we'll count doll as a species :v) symbolically rather than literally. Like, they're an extended metaphor I embody.
For pretty much all of my archetropes, it feels like simultaneously being the thing inherently and striving to be the thing as I live out my life. I really like Mord's iron/magnet analogy and would say there's definitely an element of that for me as well. My archetropy also provides a base for me to build on with voluntary expressions of my archetropes, including sonas, constels, and/or linktypes.
hauntedStars👻🌠 — 15/07/2024 00:36
may i also contribute to it posthumously by saying that when I embody my archetrope, I feel like I'm ... almost seeing myself outside of myself in the sense of imagining oneself as part of a greater scene, like when one imagines themselves to be in a movie while they do their daily stuff?
And that I feel like I just am this role I'm meant to embody. That Im meant to embody it. Spiritually called.
Its more than just a "career" and to call it that feels like profaning it
I relate strongly to the experience of "shaman sickness" as experienced by Korean shamans
obviously its not the same, but I relate in my own way where, without guidance on how to embody my archetrope, I fell off balance.
And finding guidance has felt very important
idk if that's relatable at all to anyone else, but
that's my deal
mord (🧄🗡️) — 15/07/2024 00:45
hm! i think i relate to the thing abt suffering without external/higher guidance on how i'm meant to embody my role, but that could be because it's kind of part of the package w being a warlock :v so count me also curious as to if this is a thing that's felt generally
it could be at least a little bit confined to us mage and mystic types, peering as much as i can into my headmate's experiences - vince considers verself an archetroper mostly by circumstance and whatever joey's deal is is more like "taking having fun to the point that it becomes extremely serious"
thank you to everyone involved for consenting to be included in this post :)
for another post on the experience of archetropy which also arose from discussion in this discord, see moments of moreness