Queerness and nonhumanity
marron - 2020-03-17 16:58:05
Hi all,
Some recent discussion in the Discord got me thinking about the topic of queerness and nonhumanity. For me, my experience of these is intimately linked: none of my kintypes conform to the hegemonic ideas of gender that I grew up with, and the dehumanization I’ve experienced as a queer and trans person has made me experience my nonhumanity more brightly at times (in a very voidpunk sense.)
So, for queer nonhumans, does your queerness intersect with your nonhumanity? How so, or how not?
(I’ve marked this as serious because of how dehumanization and queerphobic discrimination can play into things, but of course they don’t have to be part of your answer! Sometimes stuff isn’t like that.)
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Anomaly - 2020-03-18 22:14:05
Piper [Mew]: Most of us to some extent consider our gender and orientations to be impacted by being nonhuman, a lot consider themselves to be some kind of xenogender or medusan. We also sometimes have it impact our presentation, some of us pick pronouns based on our species (like vocalizations or theme). Being nonhuman impacts all parts of our life, and that includes queerness.
Most of us also have synesthesia and specific personal associations, so that can also play a role in how we view gender and sexuality, although it’s not always nonhuman related it can be. personal dehumanization is also a part of how some of us view our queerness.
I personally kind of consider my gender to be just “legendary Pokemon” and being aro/ace to be related to being a Mew.
aepaex - 2020-03-19 17:06:50
This is something I’ve actually been thinking a lot about, so I hope I’ll be able to organize my thoughts well lol.
In all honestly I feel very disconnected from the queer/LGBTQ community, and I don’t think my alterhumanity is the sole reason for that, but I think it’s definitely a reason.
I feel like other LGBTQ people often use nonhumanity and “monstrousness” to express their feelings about their own identities and I don’t think that’s wrong at all- and of course I understand that I portion of those people are alterhuman themselves- but I just can’t relate to it. Being attracted to multiple genders doesn’t make me feel more nonhuman, personally. I have difficulty relating to stuff like voidpunk even though I’m aromantic and alterhuman, because dehumanization seems so central to that concept, and dehumanization has very little to do with my species identity. I see so many parallels drawn between teratophilia/etc and LGBTQ attraction, and as someone who’s technically medusan it can feel uncomfortable because that stuff isn’t a metaphor for me. LGBTQ media usually makes me feel nothing significant, nothing different, whereas I crave stories with fantasy and alterhuman themes.
It’s hard to feel like I’m a part of the LGBTQ community because there are so many things- so much pride, so much pain- that I just haven’t felt. Lots of feelings that, again, I can’t relate to. And I believe that I haven’t felt some of that stuff due to things which I consider part of my alterhumanity. In the end, I end up feeling very separate.
With that said, my aromanticism (and related ace-ness) may certainly be affected by my alterhumanity. I’ve mentioned my mild face aversion and facial dysphoria before, which I primarily link to my alien species, and I’d possibly be feeling more attraction if it wasn’t present. It’s tied in to my medusanity as well.
This last thing may not technically be queer, but I figured I’d mention it. My alterhumanity can affect my gender, to the point where I previously questioned being transgender. I’m a cis woman, but I still kinda vibe with terms like xenic and xenobinary, and there are times where I specifically want to be seen as a nonhuman woman. I’m definitely not saying that I can ~understand~ trans/nb experiences because of this, but there are topics (like binding) where I can say “oh yeah, me too” due to some of my gender nonconformity.
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The_Flock - 2020-03-23 19:42:23
aepaex:
I feel like other LGBTQ people often use nonhumanity and “monstrousness” to express their feelings about their own identities and I don’t think that’s wrong at all- and of course I understand that I portion of those people are alterhuman themselves- but I just can’t relate to it. Being attracted to multiple genders doesn’t make me feel more nonhuman, personally.
Yeah, to be honest this is a bit of a struggle I face as well, especially as someone who relates to the concept of voidpunk, but not necessarily because I’m aro or nonbinary or anything. I feel more “dehumanized” as an intersex person, pluran, physically disabled, and schizo person. And even then, I have a weird relationship to “dehumanization” because I feel like I really never internalized it the same way human-identifying people do :/ Like, of course I’m not human and people are going to treat me that way, which currently means treating me poorly, unfortunately. I just never quite felt the same upset over not being seen as human.
And I also feel a disconnect between myself, who feels very literally nonhuman down to a physical-philosophical level, and many other lgbtq+ people who feel it metaphorically. I feel like those people don’t quite understand those of us for whom it is literal, so as much as I resonate with those spaces as a person who chooses to reject political humanity I still feel out of place.
aepaex:
I see so many parallels drawn between teratophilia/etc and LGBTQ attraction, and as someone who’s technically medusan it can feel uncomfortable because that stuff isn’t a metaphor for me.
This is also a struggle I understand. A lot of the focus of teratophilia/etc and the reasons LGBTQ+ people are into it and the way it’s used as a metaphor … it’s all also really alienating. Vagabondsun has talked a little before about how, as an actual nonhuman, terato spaces where we’re treated as nothing but exotic fantasy can feel a bit … fetishizing. Not to say those spaces are bad because it’s more that they cater to an entirely different need. But as a Medusan they’ve never felt like spaces that understood my attractions.
And really, just the constant use of “monstrousness” and nonhumanity as a metaphor by LGBTQ+ people is alienating in itself. Again, I don’t think it’s bad and I completely understand and support it! It’s just … not what I am. I wish I could be recognized as more than a metaphor. I want people to know I’m really alterhuman and I do exist in your queer spaces and those things both matter. :/
To be honest it’s nice to have more to speak on with regards to this topic because wei’ve talked to death about the ways muir gender and orientation and stuff intersect with muir nonhumanity at least. Wei could (and probably will!) talk more about how disability and plurality and being intersex and transsex all intersect with that, but for all the ways wei do have intimate connections between muir personal identities and queerness, it’s equally as important to discuss the challenges faced as LGBTQIA+ nonhumans in our communities.
~Davepeta
VeraLycaon - 2020-04-05 22:58:34.908
For me queerness and nonhumanity are very much intertwined as well, particularly on the gender front - even before I integrated my experience of gender was heavily influenced by it all (to the point where some very prominent aspects of mine outright didn’t have one because of their species), and that hasn’t changed since.
Obviously I’m trans, and while I’d consider myself a woman as a convenient shorthand, being therian as well that label doesn’t come without a few qualifiers depending on exactly how beastly I’m feeling at any given moment. Always a werewolf, but things will line up more with conventional femininity when I’m leaning more towards the human side of things and become increasingly distant from that the more I end up leaning to a more lupine state of mind - the same way a regular old she-wolf isn’t going to be particularly concerned about human conceptions of gender. This extends to dysphoria/euphoria, too - some things that ‘should’ give me dysphoria either simply don’t or end up being overridden by species euphoria instead (e.g. body hair outside the face), and other things very much reinforce each other (e.g. putting on makeup for a simultaneously more femme and more wolfish appearance)
As a result of that all, ‘wolfwoman’ just feels like a much more fitting label for me, and I tend to use it just about anywhere I feel I can get away with it.
On other fronts I suppose it’s affected sexual orientation somewhat too? Though I consider myself pansexual, I definitely do find myself leaning more towards other nonhuman folks (or at least, people who come off like they well might be) while regular old humans… let’s just say that unless they manage to be particularly charming, I’m typically not in the market for them.
HouseofChimeras - 2020-04-14T12:39:19.615Z
Our queerness has always felt like it was more than just our gender identities and sexual orientations. Some of it is personal and some of it is internal.
We grew up being teased and even bullied for our “strangeness.” Others picked up on our autism, our therianthropy, our multiplicity . our gender nonconformity, our non strictly heterosexuality, being non-Christian - the works and jumped on it. Others called us out on that and we were called practically every synonym for “strange” in the dictionary. Queer was one of them. At some point we started to embrace our strangeness, embrace who were were. So naturally for us reclaiming those hurtful words once used against helped take away the sting of others words. “Yeah we’re queer, so what?” and “We’re strange and that is just how we are.” However, since others use of these words didn’t solely just stem from our gender nonconformity and our non-heterosexuality, our embracing of these words didn’t solely stem for just those two aspects of ourselves either.
There is also the fact everything effects our everything else, if you will. Our multiplicity means our body doesn’t have just one sexual orientation or gender identity, gender expression. Our therianthropy effects our gender identity and gender dysphoria (example, a female wolf is a shewolf not a woman and they don’t have a single pair of large mammary glands). And so much more.
We’re not queer because of our therianthropy (or any other aspect of ourselves), but it along with many other aspects effects our personal queerness. We’re queer because of our genders and orientations, but our “strangeness” doesn’t end there and we embrace that just being who we are.
~ Earth Listener
Vyt - 2020-04-14 13:04:17
I’m one of those queer people that relates to monstrosity and voidpunk, so I thought I’d throw in my perspective of it. For reference, I am queer (bi, trans, nonbinary) and a therian, I am also disabled which is not related directly to this topic, but does intersect with these experiences for me as an individual.
I was first introduced to the queer-monster metaphor by video essays: hbomberguy’s on reclaiming Lovecraft as a queer person, and Linsey Ellis’ “Moster Boyfriend” essay on marginalization and teratohpilia. I then discovered the voidpunk community and label, and all of it felt profoundly relatable to me. I’ll break down my takes on it below.
In terms of exuality\ Despite getting into teratophilia from that metaphorical-queer perspective, I’ve found that I approach it differently from (fully human) queer people. I once took a detailed survey on monster romance/sexuality/fantasy, and found that my experiences didn’t line up with the common expectations/experiences. It’s not that I find my bi attraction to be inhuman or monstrous, (which seems to be the case for many- processing and reclaiming internalized bigotry and marginalization). Rather, monster romances game me a space as a nonhuman to express my sexuality and desire. In other words, in such fantasies I wasn’t a human being intimate with monsters- I was picturing myself as a monster (usually a werewolf) romancing my very much human partner.
In terms of gender\ I don’t have a lot of species dysphoria. When I do, it’s about lacking ears and a tail (my most common phantom shifts) and thus feeling limited in my emotional experssivity. I don’t particularly want a dog body in itself. However, I sometimes long for a purely canine body because it would not be easily visibly gendered. Also, as an AFAB person, a fat person, and a disabled person, I’ve dealt with a lot of general body shaming and expectations to be small and dainty and graceful. A person could learn to embrace these traits without nonhumanity being involved (e.g. from a feminist perspective of bodily autonomy and rejecting gender roles). But for me, choosing not to shave felt easier and more comfortable if I thought of it as being “furry”, or compared to the hairinness of monsters in media. It was easier to accept myself as large and taking up space. Heck, even in queer terms I feel more comfortable calling myself a “bear” than “butch”. Mostly for masculinity, but maybe the animal metaphor helps.
To make a long story short, for me it wasn’t\ “I am dehumanized due to these identities” -> I relate to monsters\ it was more:\ “I am nonhuman, and also dehumanized” -> monstrosity allows me to both express my nonhumanity and embrace/reclaim those dehumanized aspects.
For example, I identify as a simple dog. But in terms of “otherness” and mosntralization, I relate to werewolves. They tap into human-canine feelings for me as a therian. They also allow me to process or unpack some of my marginalized identities (queerness, body dysphoria and body image) by being large, hairy, not particularly gendered. As a therian I am only a dog. As a queer person i am only a human. Alterhumanity as-a-monster allows me to engage in that in-between “werewolf” space, where I can express myself both literally as a canine and metaphorically as a queer person.