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Questioning! Queries and Curiosity

Vyt - 2020-04-22 15:34:23

I thought it would be useful to have a Questioning thread! For people to:

This is in the general "Alterhumanity" topic because, of course, one may not always know under which sub-label their experience falls! Though I think other questioning threads under the more specific labels also wouldn't be out of place.

To start off, I am going to talk about some things I have previously questioned in the past, and where that led, and then log some questioning I am in the middle of at this moment.

Past Questioning Experiences
Dragon
When I first discovered the otherkin/therian community, my first thought for a potential kintype was dragons. They were essentially a favorite animal, and I enjoyed playing games and other simulations that allowed me to be a dragon. There were aspects I didn't jive with (the notion of dragons eating gems was new to me and not particularly relatable), which I mostly handwaved as variations in the mythology. However, as I sought out experiences to tap into a dragon-side (e.g. going indoor skydiving to simulate flight) they fell flat. Many were fun, but didn't hit the spot as particularly meaningful or personal or feeling more-like-myself. I still liked dragons, but when I tried to think sentences like "I am a dragon", it just felt awkward, there was a hill of internal resistance that it didn't get over.

Fairies
Fae of various kinds were relatable to me in a lot of traits and behaviors. I had always liked fantasy stories growing up, and our backyard gardern was special to me. The Spiderwick Chronicles books were particularly influential. I was strongly averse to lying and until college refused to lie, at all, instead using careful wording or dodging questions. This is a common trope in faerie stories. I also saw fae elements in my food preferences (bread with honey was particularly special) and in a general connection with nature. Like with dragons, the aesthetic appealed to me but there was a friction that resisted if I ever tried to truly think of myself as one.

Angel
This came from, essentially, having an extremely Lawful Good personality. I was very rule abiding (see above with faeries and not ever lying until I was an adult). And my intense rule-following was explicilty something unusual to my parents that they said they never taught me (both being far more flexibile). I was the most profoundly religious in my family and had really strong emotional connections to light, as well as phantom wing shifts. Questioning this kintype kind of faded out as I navigated my own disconnect from Christianity, learned about my own personality (through introspection, friends and therapy). Finding (and roleplaying as) the Paladin trope really helped me find a place and methof of expression for those feelings. I still get wing shifts, but as far as I can tell almost everyone does, and it seems to be a common cameo shift for me with no other traits. Not as a kintype, but the archetype of a Angel/Knight/Paladin remains a role model and goal for me in shaping my life and choices. I am actively trying to be a modern-day Paladin, even though I don't identify as a literal angel.

Sun/Light
This I questioned only briefly. It stemmed mostly from having a profound physical and mental connection to light. Everyone has circadian rhythyms, but mine were on the far end of the Bell curve in strength and influence. I was "solar-powered", a morning person, to the point that being in the dark for a few hours (like in a movie theater) made me slow and sleepy and less coherent, and turning on the lights (even artificial/electric light) did wonders for my mental clarity. I never really felt I was a light-being, but light was somehow fundamentally important to me and I didn't know what other options to consider. These feelings eventually found a home in centering Saule (the sun) in my religious practice of Romuva (Lithuanian paganism)

Dog
Like many therians, I started with wolves. I liked playing animal simulation games in general, and many for wolves (like wolfquest, among others) felt right and natural. However, I did not really align with many of the wilder/more feral aspects of wolves, and I had no discomfort with humans and humanity. I started dipping my toe into furry spaces and roleplaying as a dog or dog-person, and found this comfortable/validating. In playing these games (wether as a wolf or dog or dog-person) I had a strong sense of what my fur was "supposed" to be like, that had no reasoning behind it except a fundamental internal conviction. Some things (like red and white fur) just felt "correct", and some (like floppy ears) just didn't. Looking up dog pictures for an oracle deck gave me a very profound "that's me!" reaction that I could find no other explanation for (had never owned that type of dog, etc.). This "me" feeling was also activated by other dog breeds, inumimi (dog-people in manga/anime), and canine stories. Started having new experiences (only really started having shifts once interacting with other therians) but also made sense of old experiences (I had been a habitual chewer since childhood). Yearned to be a dog in a way I hadn't really with the other species I questioned. E.g. being a dragon would be cool, and was fun to imagine, but never blindsided me with longing.

In summary, things I have questioned and where they ended up for me in life:

Currently questioning
Last Friday I was blindsided with a wave of very strong feelings towards goats and the longing to be a goat-person, in a way that felt similar to previous feelings toward my theriotype and paratypes. One small thing that struck me was seeing my friends play Animal Crossing and having the feeling that I wanted to be a goat villager (even though dog villagers exist).

I have a lot of possitive associations with goats. As an infant I was raised on goat milk (a fact my mother told me often and thus I have postive mental associations with goat milk/cheese). Anthropomorphic goats are the main characters in the Soviet-era movie Mama/Rock and Roll Wolf, which I wateched many times as a child. I associate goats with sheep (and as a child mistakenly believed they were the same species for a while), a known paratype of mine. My boyfriend playfully metaphorically calls me a goat because I will chew/eat anything, including metal and plastic. I like half-animal creatures like fauns and satyrs (thought also centaurs, etc.) Goats in general are cute and appealing to me. In this current moment of isolation and self-quarantine, a goat plush is providing most of my physical comfort needs, so that may be influencing why I feel particularly strongly these days.

At the present moment I do not think this is a kintype. It's just a matter of figuring out wether:

Edit: Not particularly looking for answers/suggestions right now, since I think time will help clarify how temporary my current feelings are. But if people have experiences in distinguishing otherhearted feelings from other associations, I'd love to hear that and invite them to share.

gingerbread - 2020-04-29 12:25:50
My first question would be, does talking about identities we're questioning here necessarily mean inviting suggestions, or can it just be talking? I feel like maybe it would be useful to establish that expectation early in the thread.

Other questions that are directed more generally and may-or-may-not deserve their own threads, I don't know:

Vyt - 2020-04-29 16:01:05

gingerbread:

My first question would be, does talking about identities we're questioning here necessarily mean inviting suggestions, or can it just be talking? I feel like maybe it would be useful to establish that expectation early in the thread.

I personally think that would depend on each individual person? Like maybe, when somebody posts in the thread they can include in their post wether they want suggestions, or are just trying to express themselves. I'll edit my own post as an example, since I think this is a good idea.

osteophage - 2020-05-15 00:16:26

This seems like as good a place as any for a first post. :V

Hi, folks. I'm Coy, and I made an account here to check the place out precisely because I'm, hm, let's go with "alter-curious." Or… questioning, you might say, although I'd like to state up front that I'm not on any active hunt for terms or answers/resolution. It's more like… I'm interested in ways of decentering humanity, in both a philosophical sense and a personal one, and I'm looking to learn more about the various ways that people are navigating that and building community around that. So this is me sticking my head in the door here.

The personal part of the draw comes from a few different things. For one, I'm-- hm, how to put this… "discontent with corporeal being," is how I've joked about it before. Roughly like what folks call body dysphoria, although in ways that don't completely map to gender dysphoria (or species dysphoria either, if you were wondering). I'd just prefer to exist in some way other than navigating physical space, if it were up to me. And if I have to be stuck in a physical body, kind of a ripoff that it doesn't even have fangs, you know? Among a long list of preferable possibilities. …Actually, come to think of it, probably not everyone's childhood includes praying to God to be made a shapeshifter, huh? …Well, it's probably mostly normal stuff, I guess, but it adds up to this personal sense of divergence-from-human-as-base-template thing I'm getting at here, even if it doesn't add up to anything more particular than that.

Anyway. One of the things complicating my relationship to this stuff is that initially the only not-human narrative I knew of was the otherkin one, which isn't the frame that works for me, but stumbling across the broader umbrella of alterhumanity seemed more open-ended than that. So at this point I'm wondering, re: not necessarily committing to a particular type of something-other-than-human - how much precedent is there for that? Like I said, coming in clueless here.

shield_badger - 2020-05-15 22:47:11

Well hello there! o/ Nice to see you here, I recognize you from Pillowfort :P

When you talk about the dysphoria you describe, I'm reminded of many other accounts (including my own headmate's) of similar discomfort, where they feel like they should exist … less physically? As a mist, or energy, or … not quite at all? Not in a fatalistic way so much as a "totally disembodied mind" sorta way. You're not alone there, is the point! And all the little things that you feel add up to a human-divergent experience don't have to be particularly abnormal to be meaningfully human-divergent/alterhuman/whatever for you. Some wolf therians will attest to child animal play as a major influence in their Awakening, and that's a very typical human behavior. It's all about how the individual feels about it that matters, yknow?

As for the existence of a precedent for "undefined other-than-human" identities, there is one! I've actually seen a good number of folks both coming through Alt+H and just around the web starting to talk more about feeling just … not human. Maybe there's a vague direction of "animal" or "mythical" or something, but an identity as just other-than-human without committing to anything specific is definitely a thing I've seen before.

And even if not, it certainly wouldn't have barred you from setting that precedent ;P But I know how it can go, it's nice to know if you're not the first and only.

Edit: And of course if you're looking for philosophy and experiences that de-center and question humanity, you've definitely come to the right place ;)

Sugarvenom - 2020-05-17 15:14:22

I think I'm possibly questioning a voluntary identity of some kind, which honestly feels a little strange. It's a voluntary identity, surely you just either choose it, or don't, right, isn't that the point of it being voluntary?

But I've been an aware alterhuman for so long, spending that entire time dealing with solely non-voluntary experiences, and only for a fraction of that time have voluntary experiences even been talked about as an acceptable thing. So for me, to approach a voluntary identity as a possibility, is definitely a "Wait. Is this a thing?"

I've been spending a lot of neuronarration time in LOTR-land, and mostly my presence there has been as a really fantastical version of myself. Not from there, or any race from there. But that time spent led to an emotional connection, and that led to a ping from the Valar, the powers of the world, who I am now starting to work with.

Most of the people who work with the Valar atm identify as Elven in some way, and I feel a bit weird… not. But I just don't, at least not in the way I'm used to. I can't find a part of me, pre-existing, that says "yup, Elf". I also feel a bit weird not having Arda be a heart-home. I feel this weird connection, but it's not a hearthome.

But then I realised, why couldn't I be, why couldn't it be. Nothing says that it has to be an involuntary identity, that the way I feel has to be this innate, reflexive sensation. And nothing says that "Elf" has to feel like the way all the Elves I've encountered feel, it can feel different, it can feel me, or a way that I construct.

This feels a bit strange for a questioning thread, because I'm less questioning my experiences, and more questioning how to proceed. But I guess it's questioning all the same.

gingerbread - 2020-05-22 16:44:00

Sugarvenom:

I think I'm possibly questioning a voluntary identity of some kind, which honestly feels a little strange. It's a voluntary identity, surely you just either choose it, or don't, right, isn't that the point of it being voluntary?

This thread will probably be of interest if you haven't already seen it, maybe.

Personally I don't know how to parse voluntary/involuntary as a distinction, so I can't really help there, but I do feel like even in situations where it's like 'one day, I woke up and decided to be a ghost' it's not as simple as 'well, can't you just decide not to be'? Because… I don't know, I feel like even with super arbritrary choices it can be hard to get around the ramifications and consequences of them, and there's definitely something to be said about comfort, habit, and attachment there.

Sugarvenom:

This feels a bit strange for a questioning thread, because I'm less questioning my experiences, and more questioning how to proceed. But I guess it's questioning all the same

That definitely makes sense. Are you looking for advice/options, something else, or just collecting your thoughts?

Nim - 2020-06-15 14:52:43

(I accidentally made a new thread for this, reposting my babble here ^^)

I have been going back and forth on labels as long as I can remember. Even before I joined the community. I called myself an elf for a long time, and usually more specifically a foxelf but I was also always searching for what my animal species was (which I now know is called theriotype of course).

The last year, while in the community I have been really taking a good look at my therianthropy. I have always seen myself as more animalistic and wild, and I always believed that was because I was part-animal in a therianthrope way. Except within this community I find myself different from other therians. I started to wonder if I really was a therian, and if I wasn't if I could be okay with that. Wether I maybe had been trying to force myself into fitting the label.

Part of my questioning journey when it comes to labels has been that I do not consider myself a polykin. When I just joined the community in April 2018, I really felt sure about having both a kintype and a theriotype - but soon that started to feel wrong because I consider myself "one" being. Idk why I trouble myself with that, it's not as if polykin aren't one person (when not a system of course) but I just didn't feel right for me.
And yet I was calling myself a fae while searching for my theriotype, I just wasn't happy when I had to say "multiple" if someone asked how many 'types I had.

But then I came to the conclusion that I was going about finding my theriotype the wrong way. I was also expecting for some reason to find something "new" like once I found my theriotype I'd finally be a decisive person who really knew who they were and would stop wondering all the time, feeling lost and confused about who they are.
That is when it clicked for me that I was a dog therian, I had been calling myself dog-hearted all along; it was the only solid identity I had really and it made sense that my animality was dog. It's true I do have a lot of dog in me, and I don't think I am totally off calling myself a dog therian or that I don't fit it but I never seem to stick with calling myself a dog therian. I keep going back to using dog-hearted as it often feels more right.

I am still otherkin though, no question. Right now I am looking back at that identity that I was calling alterhuman for now, wondering which label fits me best. I have tried many different labels over the last two years, fae seemed to fit best - but there is something off. Right now I am looking into possibly being demonkin. I am not evil, I am a chaos spirit aligned with the element shadow. Many parts of me that I saw as fae have come into a new light for me.

I am going to take my time, it is important to learn more about demons to me as well as give it a few months to see if it still feels right when I am not overly focused on this.
I am not quite sure if I'd like to be questioned/grilled on this, but I am open for a polite back and forth where the focus is learning more rather than breaking down.